[Dynagroove] Don?t Give Into The Submission...

[badiye@aol.com]

Hmm...very interesting.  Thanks for that perspective.  Like you said, you are
entitled to your opinion.  I would usually leave it at that, except that you
seem to be making veiled attacks on me personally so let me set the records
straight very quickly without boring the rest of the members of this list:

1.  If the message is about victimhood, then it is about victimhood. It's not
particularly difficult to discern since the lyrics, for the most part, are
still in English.  Calling it what it is doesn't "smack" of any racism (you
clearly don't know me).

2.  I've been to more underground Hip Hop clubs than you'll ever know.

3.  If your idea of house is 13 year olds at raves than you have no clue what
house scene I'm talking about.

4.  House is about universal love, respect and understanding and the message
is conveyed through dance.  That's it.   In that very simple approach its
message manages to be all encompassing: Political, Social, Revolutionary,
anti-establishment, individualistic, participatory, respectfull, socially
conscious and above all positive.  None of this is achieved by any of Hip
Hop's protagonists.

5.  If the cream of the crop of Hip Hop is the stuff you see on TV, then
THAT's Hip Hop's leading message.  Period.  Like it or not Hip Hop is
currently associated with the wonderful social messages of 50 cents and
common.   Why must the rest of us work so hard  to dig deeper to find the
so-called TRUE hip hop message.  This is perverse logic.  YOU change your LEAD
message and maybe then we'll change our minds, not the other way around.

If you admit that the lead message is crap, then change it, don't blindly
defend it.

Imad.



-----Original Message-----
From: D. F. Bacon <djivluv05 at yahoo.com>
To: BadIYE at aol.com; phathead at phatnetwork.net; dynagroove at dynagroove.com
Sent: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:34:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Dynagroove] Don?t Give Into The Submission...


I completely disagree with your assertion Imad.

Simply because the voice of Rap right now happens to
be fifty cent, it doesnt mean that all rap that is out
right now is about "victimhood" (which in my opinion
smacks of a little racism) or violence.

What you see as "rap" music is what corporate america
wants you to see. Why? Because there is nothing easier
to sell than sex and violence, and thats the kind of
rap they push on people because they know that they
will eat it up.

If your world view of house music was all the garbage
that gets airplay in Europe and your vision of house
was a bunch of 13 year olds with glowsticks in their
mouths, what would your vision of house music be?

Well thats the equivilent of what the hip hop that is
"selling" these days really is to me. Besides all
that, hip hop is more than just music, its a cultural
movement that has its share of influence in the worlds
of dance and visual art, and poetry, as well as music.


To dump on "hip-hop" and not want to reach out to a
group of people who more likely than not are into the
same kind of community values you espose is kind of
hypocritical.

You're allowed to have your own opnion, but I think if
you are really about what you say your about I would
challenge you to go our and really meet these people
before passing judgment on who they are because they
like hip hop.


"You must be the change you wish to see in the world"

- Ghandi

--- BadIYE at aol.com wrote:

> I appreciate what you're trying to get to, and I am
> aware of the history of
> Hip Hop (i'm probably older than you are
> J...tehehehe).  Right now the
> disconnect between the two "messages" is quite wide.
>  However, maybe with
> your
> newsletter and your efforts, we will all come back
> together under one roof  of
> 'opposition'.  Good luck to you.
>
> best
>
> imad
> housesaladla.com
> the GOOD life
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2005 4:43:45 PM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> phathead at phatnetwork.net writes:
>
>
> Hi  Imad,
>
> Well, though I do I agree with what most of what you
> just said at  a
> mainstream level, lets not forget the founders of
> Hip Hop would
> disagree with you.  Afrika Bambatta has said it over
> and over again,  as
> well as the early songs of RunDMC and others alike.
> If you  subscribe
> to the newsletter you will find that we don't settle
> for water  down
> theories of change from both Hip Hop or House!  For
> those of us  that
> have been in the game for over a decade there is
> plenty to say about
> the House scene as much as Hip Hop that leaves a bad
> taste in my mouth
> (House-Etards or CCDs - Clueless Club Drunks).  Lets
> not forget that  it
> was Hip Hop that brought us songs like 'Fight The
> Power' by Public
> Enemy, any rap song by Paris, and more recently the
> fusion of Hip Hop
> and Rock like "Rage Against The Machine."  No doubt
> that there is a
> void in Hip Hop right now, but it has a strong
> potential for change.
> Again, here at PN we only look at the REAL SHIT that
> has meaning.   That
> is meant to lift you soul and makes you face the
> injustices that are
> going down in the world and the need for activism
> and creativity in the
> youth of America.  Hip Hop is our voice, House is
> the Feeling, and
> Electro is the Future!! At least, that is how we
> seek it for now.  We
> all know that things change of course, for now the
> voice of HIp Hop
> continues to be the voice of the black community and
> the unrepresented
> therefore we feel we must fight the good fight by
> labeling the 50 Cents
> of the world as FAKERS and celebrate those that are
> using Hip Hop as a
> tool for liberation which clearly don't get radio
> play!!  We believe
> that a divided underground scene only fuels
> America's tendency to
> separate instead of uniting communities.  I remember
> a time when you
> went to a party and you could see Hip Hoppers
> dancing with Housers and
> Rockers all under one roof.  Some of us will like to
> see that again
> soon!!
>
> Our newsletter is not for the weak and timid.  And
> is  definitely not
> for the apathetic.  It is for does individuals that
> believe you cannot
> go through life without being part of the change for
>  the better and
> justice for all sentient beings around the  world!!
> George aka Gomes
> (Not J-Splat)
>
>
> On Dec 5, 2005, at  4:10 PM, BadIYE at aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey J-Splat.   It  all sounds good except I dont
> want to have anything
> > to  do with "Hip Hop" and its so-called voice of
> the next
> >  generation....sorry, i think for the most part
> Hip Hop's message is
> >  utterly unappealling.  It comes no where close to
> resembling House's
> > message of brotherly and universal love,
> understanding,  acceptance and
> > positive outlook.  Even the underground Hip  Hop
> stuff (which is
> > actually quite good technically) barely registers
> a socially conscious
> > voice beyond that of whining about  victimhood
> (there are glaring
> > exceptions of course)... my 2 cents of  course,
> with all due respect.
> >
> > Imad
> >  housesaladla.com
> > the GOOD life.
> >
> > In a message  dated 12/5/2005 3:28:02 PM Pacific
> Standard Time,
> >  phathead at phatnetwork.net writes:
> >> Hey party people,
> >>  Donâ?Tt Give Into The Submission...
> >> JOIN THE  OPPOSITION!!
> >> Elevating Consciousness Through Arts, Film,
> Dance,  & Music
> >>
> >> Do you consider yourself a person with
> progressive values?  Are you
> >> looking for more than  club/events listings in
> town?  Want to know what
> >> is the  latest cutting edge music coming out of
> Europe and the U.S.?
> >> Want  to have access to news around the world
> that combine the same
> >>  values that made â?~House Musicâ?T and â?oHip
> Hopâ?T the voice of the
> next
> >>  generation?   Then THE OPPOSITION is for  you!!
> >>
> >> For 6 years now and with an e.list of over 900
> active emails, THE
> >> OPPOSITION has been, and continues to be a
> strong voice in the Los
> >> Angeles Underground community .  From  news, art,
> film, music reviews,
> >> and event/cub listings, The  Opposition is a
> weekly e-newsletter that
> >> covers it all in ONE  WEEKLY EMAIL.  Born as a
> reaction to an aging
> >> generation and  the lack of values that plague
> the House and Hip Hop
> >> underground  communities by the takeover of big
> business, THE
> >>  OPPOSITION
> >> is for those who seek not just a good time, but
> also  knowledge,
> >> self-expression, activism, and  spiritualism.
> >>
> >> With working relationships with active  event
> promoters, music labels,
> >> progressive news sources, and  insiders in the
> art community and
> >> community activists, The  Opposition takes a slap
> and the status quo
> >> every week with the  philosophy that change
> starts one mind at a time.
> >> So in other  words, The Opposition is for YOU!!!
> >>
> >> Go to  http://www.phatnetwork.net to subscribe!!
> >> Also, Come And Join Us  For Our Holiday Party
> >> & Celebration of The Oppositionâ?Ts 6-year
> Anniversary!!
> >>
> >> Note: The Opposition is a community  service
> provided by PHAT Network.
> >> The Punk, Hip Hop, Arts &  Techno Network
> reserves the right to keep
> >> this newsletter  underground.  All promotion
> material will be screened
> >> before  being forward to the e.list â?"
> Therefore, if you are promoting
> >>  an
> >> event that is way over hyped and there for way
> over priced,  have no
> >> concept of knowledge and action over ignorance
> and apathy,  ignore
> >> quality over quantity, and/or just simply trying
> to get  every lame ass
> >> on the street to come to your party please
> donâ?Tt  bother sending us the
> >> info.  It will only be added to our  junk e.mail
> and will get deleted.
> >> Use your own discretion.   Keep it real. **:)
> > _________________________________________
>
> View the Archives:
> http://mailman.newdream.net/pipermail/dynagroove/




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