[Dynagroove] Don?t Give Into The Submission...

[Pat SchooLastra]

I am not really sure at this point what the original intention of this
thread was, but I thought I would chime in and try and keep my opinion
on Hip-Hop, House and their general perceptions, simple (long-winded?
Sure :-)...

Every time I have worked at ANY show with Hip-Hop Music involved, we
were REQUIRED BY LAW to provide twice the security and there are/were
ALWAYS fights. Always fights within the same groups (ethnic) and usually
over nothing (like a guy looking at another guys girl, looking at each
other and one thinks that the other 'wants' something or someone jumping
ahead of another at the bar or bathroom, etc). Its like dealing with a
bunch of children in adult bodies. Fighting over things that as an
adult, I just find plain silly. The music simply perpetuates this and I
have not seen anything like it in ANY other form of music show I have
dealt with. It's the same no matter what ethnic group dominates the
club, the level of education or the amount of money the crowd earns.
This goes for not only SoCal, but scenes I have seen play out in Las
Vegas, San Francisco, Miami, Atlantic City, Dallas, Philadelphia and on
an on...

Now then, I have done both cheesy Trance (with PVD & others) and
straight-up House shows a-plenty. Those don't require anything outside
of the normal amount of security (standard for any show at any venue)
and those shows RARELY have fights. Violence and negativity just do not
go hand-in-hand with Dance Music. When fights do happen, its usually
from someone completely out of the scene and usually its their first
time at a club like that....'fish outta water' syndrome.

I have seen some REALLY violent and negative things at other shows
including punk, rock, rap-metal, indie rock and even reggae, but nothing
as consistent and predictable as hip-hop shows. Even Board-Sport shows
and conventions where everyone is hyped on adrenaline and ready to
burst, little or no problems occur.

Another predictable thing, If I am driving by or next to a car and
someone is bumping dance music (whatever genre) they are usually smiling
and grooving to it. If I make eye contact, there is usually a smile back
and sometime a holler and some hands dancing around (sometime me,
sometimes them). If it's a car playing hip-hop, its always the same
thing....someone trying to look hard with a scowl on their face and they
seem to be antagonizing those around them into some kind of
confrontation. If you can't agree on this point then I would just delete
this email now and move on.

Hip-Hop used to be about good times and such (Run-DMC, Biz Markie,
Beastie Boys, De La Soul, BDP, etc) but that time is long gone. Going to
hip-hop shows when they called it 'rap' was a fun and enjoyable
experience. I truly miss those times even more than the early warehouse
days of my clubbing experience. But gangsta-rap and what followed has
certainly put a stop to those fun times. You should see the amount of
weapons confiscated at these shows. It would blow your mind. Or the
conversations with Law Enforcement as someone is being arrested. People
come to these shows specifically to get into fights. That is pure and
simple a negative act. It's a total headache and I have made a conscious
decision NOT to work at Hip-Hop related shows because of it.

As for the comment about underground vs. commercial, there is no
difference. Just because you are aware of some artist that 3% of the
population knows about and that's what you call 'underground' or 'roots'
or whatever, its not what the general perception is. The artists selling
records are the ones who own that genre and define it. Numbers don't lie
and the more you confuse the issue by saying their not the 'true'
artists, the more your complaints and/or comments fall on deaf ears.
'Wake-up call to White America'????....who do you think is buying the
music? Hip-Hop is no longer a genre that comes from the streets and is
made for the streets...its about as 'White America" as you can get.

I would love to see some positive things come out of the hip-hop culture
and for people to thrive on the good instead of the bad. At this point
however, I would be lying to myself and those reading this if I said
that it is perceived as a positive culture.

It is what it is.

Regards,
 
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: dynagroove-bounces at dynagroove.com
[mailto:dynagroove-bounces at dynagroove.com] On Behalf Of P N
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:21 PM
To: BadIYE at aol.com
Cc: dynagroove at dynagroove.com
Subject: Re: [Dynagroove] Don?t Give Into The Submission...


Oah!! I'm sorry, but that was the most narrow view of both Hip Hop and
House I have ever heard!

Frist off, the word Hip Hop is not just rappers on a bling, bling stage.
Its, graf artists, its breakdancers, its DJs, and MCs.  Breakdancers
took the dancefloor to scape the violence of the ghetto.  Graf artists
have envolved from simple taggers to world known artists that constantly
create work that critizes the status quo.  DJ battles were created to
demostrate the skills of kids which the world said had no future because
they grew up in fuck up neighborhoods.  MCs (including today) are still
rapping about the injustes that go on in urban america.  To think that
the reason gangs shoot and kill each other is because 50 Cent raps about
it is just stupid and ignorant.  People die in the ghetto because the
situation there is like a war zone.  No good jobs, no good role models,
no healthcare, no justice from the Police, etc.  MCs are only rapping
about the stuff that goes on in neighborhoods all over the US everyday.
If anything is meant as a wake up call to middle WHITE Ame!  rica that
just cause you feel like ignoring the problem of porvety does not mean
that is not happening.  Hip Hop is a wake up call that says 'there is a
storm coming.'  The problem is that Corporate America saw the how they
can profit from the medium, so they exploit it to the point where it
looses its true meaning.  

That does that mean that Hip Hop is dead?  OF course not, is just back
where is began, in The Underground brewing strength to make its return.
Just like House did! House is nothing new.  But it did have its falling
days when 'getting fucked up' meant more than unity on the dancefloor.
In fact, I would argue that House today still has a long way to go if
its going to make a full return to the glory of its really days.  Now a
days whether is a club or a warehouse people do not dance in the energy
and unity that they did back during the late 80s and early 90s.  

I go to parties no a days and see a bunch of snoby kids that are only
there people its 'the party to go to' that week.  The worst are does
people which you know you have clearly seen at several parties before
but they insist in ignoring you like if they have never seen you before.
How is that unity?  How is that better than telling it how it really is?
It seems IMAD that you are trying to live life in a double standard
which does not play in the real world.  Just my 2 cents.  


George G.
Go to the website for a quick adrenaline mix posted today:
http://www.phatnetwork.net/gomes


> 
> From: BadIYE at aol.com
> Date: 2005/12/06 Tue PM 05:32:01 EST
> To: aaron at tohzt.com
> CC: djivluv05 at yahoo.com,  phathead at phatnetwork.net,  
> dynagroove at dynagroove.com
> Subject: Re: [Dynagroove] Don?t Give Into The Submission...
> 
>  
> thanks for your input Aaron.  Here are my quick responses:
>  
> 1.  While those of us with strong will personality can get theirs  
> outside of
> the mainstream, and be better off in doing so, one can't truly
dispute the 
> undue influence the younger generation sustains at the hand of
mainstream 
> media powerhouses.  It is literally a technologically advanced,  media
researched, 
> gigantic peer pressure factory.  Very tough to ignore  and/or reject
for most 
> 17 year olds.  Oddly, and thankfully, it is on the  internet that most
youths 
> have found alternatives...
>  
> 2.  Pointing out debatable exceptions in Hip Hop only reinforces  the 
> rule.
> Hip Hop's main message is a dubiously negative one, at  best.  Get
yours, 
> Bling Bling, Get all the hoes and bitches and make it big  (sell crack
if you have 
> to).  It doesn't seek common ground, it seeks to  celebrate
differences (East 
> Coast, West Coast - Mine, Yours - even cities [The  LBC - Compton] are
a 
> source of pride and antagonism - like bedouin tribes during  the dark
ages.  
> utterly ridiculous]
>  
> 3.   For argument sake, let's assume that the Leading message for  the
house 
> music scene is that of the cheeziest DJs and producers such as Paul  
> Van Dyk
> and company.  Even at THAT level of fromage,  It REMAINS 100% more
positive 
> than that of the Hip Hop message.   Unless I've missed something, the
"Van Dyk" 
> message is still "come out  and dance and celebrate each others
humanity, and 
> forget your  differences, on the floor". Right?  so the mainstream
sees a bunch 
> of  e-tars doing silly light shows....In part, they are right, but who
cares? 
>   The same mainstream saw Woodstock as a haven for acid drippin'
hippies who 
> were  simply there to have dirty sex in the mud...which 60's movement
had the 
> most  positive impact in the end on our social fabric?  the
conservative 
> military  one that wanted us to stay in Vietnam forever?  No.  It was
the  culture 
> of love. 
>  
> In the case of the dance/club scene and its reputation for drug taking
> excesses, if the leading message is seen as "Take Drugs" than this is
mostly a  
> perception issue by people outside of a culture they fear and who are
defensive 
> about their own membership in the mainstream.
>  
> On the other hand, the Hip Hop Leading Message is not a perception 
> thing at
> all.  The THUG LIFE is actually CELEBRATED in bold print by Hip Hop's
most  
> successful (again, 50 Cents and his ilk)...so the comparison is
completely  
> appropriate and Hip Hop loses hands down.
>  
> At worst, members of the "dance/club scene" are seen as vaccuous party
> animals who take E, put on light shows and feel each other up without
any  
> violence.  That's better than vaccuous young people who do crack,
shoot  each other up 
> for territory/money/bitches-hoes/"respect".  When's the last  time you
heard 
> of gang banging at a Van Dyk party?  50 Cents and Eminem's  MOVIES
(fucking 
> movies!) both were the scene for numerous  shootings ....again,
utterly 
> ridiculous.  
>  
> The difference is so night and day.  Hip Hop is currently  
> dysfunctional and
> absolutely corrosive.  The more people continue to  deny that there is
a 
> problem in that genre of music, in the name of being  "fair", the
longer we all 
> have to suffer its negative  effects on basic rules of societal
decency.  I mean 
> think about  it:  Allen Iverson (a product of Hip Hop culture if ever
there 
> was one)  went after his ex-wife brandishing a gun!  This is normal
behavior? 
> well in  the hip hop world, actually, it is!! 
>  
> I don't recall ever hearing that Farina's people were calling for the 
> head
> of DJ Sneak for "dissing" him.  Or maybe that Van Dyk (East Germany)
took  
> shots at Timo Maas (West Germany) over who is the best Trance DJ in
their 
> country?  Nah...never happens, and will never happen....
>  
> my 2 cents once again.  Thanks for engaging Aaron.
>  
> Imad
>  
> In a message dated 12/6/2005 10:30:47 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> aaron at tohzt.com writes:
> 
> 
> in  response to:  badiye at aol.com<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> There  are other sources out there other than the mainstream.  What we

> eat from the mainstream is usually force or blindly fed to us, but you

> can always choose to get your nourishment from the family owned taco 
> stand  or burger hut down the street instead of from the big
chain......and you  can
> even look cute wearing one of those cute little Anarchy t-shirts.   No
> harsh chemicals, no msg, won't give you diarrhea (of the mouth,  mind,

> whatever).
> 
> > 4.  House is about universal love,  respect and understanding and 
> > the message
> > is conveyed through  dance.  That's it.   In that very simple
approach its
> >  message manages to be all encompassing: Political, Social,  
> > Revolutionary, anti-establishment, individualistic, participatory,  
> > respectfull, socially conscious and above all positive.  None of  
> > this is achieved by any of Hip Hop's  protagonists.
> >
> 
> Um....what about protagonists like Moka Only,  Ostrich Head, Digable
> Planets, or even the debatable Kanye West.   These artists as well as
many
> others in the hip hop community seem to be  boasting and jamming on 
> something other than bling and bitches.  I  agree that house can say 
> it without saying it, but not everyone flows on  that tip.  Some 
> people need to hear the words and say them out loud  themselves.
> 
> > 5.  If the cream of the crop of Hip Hop is the  stuff you see on TV,
then
> > THAT's Hip Hop's leading message.   Period.  Like it or not Hip Hop
is
> > currently associated with the  wonderful social messages of 50 cents
and
> > common.   Why must  the rest of us work so hard  to dig deeper to
find the
> > so-called  TRUE hip hop message.  This is perverse logic.  YOU 
> > change  your LEAD message and maybe then we'll change our minds, not

> > the other way around.
> 
> 
> The truth is that when most people think of  dance music culture, 
> raves, house parties, whatever you want to call it,  they think of 
> fucked up kids and glowing things.  We all know that's  not all it's 
> about, but I would argue that it is OUR LEADING MESSAGE in  today's 
> culture.  If you want to dig down into the "house" genre of  
> electronic music, you will find our underground heroes, but still 
> fizzing  at the top are your Paul Van Dyks, Felix the Housecats, and 
> (gag) Ferry  Corstens.  I think this point (5) is unfair and victim to

> the same  flawed logic that you point out.
> 
> The lead message will probably always  be modified, changed, dilluted,

> and misinterpreted.  I think it's  about focusing on what the true 
> message is and never backing down from it,  even if you meet 
> opposition.
> 
> 
> Finally, some  discussion!
> 
> <3
> 
> A-ron
> 
> http://www.boomboomrecordings.com/audio/dave_rape_cant_stop_me_now.mp3