[Dynagroove] Don?t Give Into The Submission...(Sorry)

[badiye@aol.com]

I have no clue how or why this message was sent (resent?) out of my saved e-mails in my file cabinet.  Aol is trippin'.  It was not my intention to revisit this topic whatsoever.  When I logged on just now, I noticed a message that my "saved e-mail has been sent" (I wrote this what? 2 months ago?). I was mystified.  Maybe I mistakenly hit some "F" button?  I dunno.  Anyhoo, I apologize for the redundancy of this e-mail's subject (previously debated ad nauseum).  Please feel free to ignore it completely.  Thanks.
 
Imad
housesaladla.com
the GOOD life 
-----Original Message-----
From: BadIYE at aol.com
To: dynagroove at veggiechinese.net; dynagroove at dynagroove.com
Sent: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:15:16 EST
Subject: Re: [Dynagroove] Don?t Give Into The Submission...


Hey there W.  (George?  what are you doing on this  list...teheheh...just 
kidding).
 
I agree with you but you've misunderstood what I was saying.  Far from  
making assumptions about what people believe on an individual basis (and you're  

right, each person will think differently), i was making the point that the ONLY 

 message that one can extract from House music is this one:  A simple  
invitation to dance freely to humans of all background.  If we can't agree  on 
that 
very basic nature of house music, then the debate is DOA.  From  that very 
basic premise, a more or less cohesive culture can easily be  detected among 
those who go out to house clubs and engage the house  scene.  And here, we're 
talking a matter of simple observation.  The  difference between a Hip Hop club 
and House club is instantly palpable.  If  you have not made that obvious 
observation then I probably will never get you to  agree to any of my arguments.  

But I think honestly, I would find it  very surprising to hear from anyone that 
the vibe between the two  is remotely similar.
 
Now sitting there reading what I'm listing as the various elements of the  
house message, you may say: well I don't think of house that way.   Sure.  But 
this is easily demonstrated.  For instance, I say that  House's message 
encompasses the political.  You say:  "how is that  possible" or "I don't agree"  

Well what do you call the act of  relinquishing mainstream society and its clubs 

to go dance the night away to a  somewhat "fringe" type of music, in some hard 
to find, secret location, just to  enjoy that music (and maybe even "party") 
in an atmosphere of  acceptance and understanding.  It's certainly an act of 
defiance, of  independence and of rejectionism and therefore, by definition a 
political  act.    By doing so, we're also rejecting the rigidity of  social 
expectations regarding behavior, dress codes, how to act, how to  think, who is 
acceptably good looking an who is not, who  has proper financial status and 
who is not...none of that is  important for a music or a scene revolving around 
getting people to simply  dance.  
 
You could say, it's the 'underground' aspect of the party that makes  it so, 
not the music in and of itself.  Well, not if the reason we are  underground 
is the maintstream rejection of the  music.  We're at illegal venues because 
the legal  venues don't want us to play THIS music.  yet we  persevere, put on 
this parties at the risk of legal penalties and yet our  message is "come one 
come all".  This is no accident.  
 
As a house music producer, that may not be at all your intended message nor  
even the meaning you retrieve from the music.   What I say though, is  that 
your personal belief, while completely valid, is also irrelevant, because  the 
message is objectively recognizable without it being subjectively  accepted.  
This is so due to the confluence of all the elements  that make the house 
experience complete since it began in late  70's New York, early 80's Detroit, 
mid-80s' Chicago or wherever one feels  it began, including the recognizable 
footprint of the music (4 by  4, electronically created, bassline heavy etc..) 
the  
method of  delivery (DJ mixing and weaving elements of tracks through clean 
loud  sound), the wherehouses, the dance moves, the lack of dress code 
formality,  the lack of adherence to a way of acting, or even a way of thinking, 
and  
yes the drug intaking.  Repeating the experience over time (what  three 
decades now?) allows the music to develop a scene with its  own rituals and sets 
of 
values, and thus scene develops a message  that transcends any contrary 
meaning that we may have on an individual  basis (such as yours).   

In a message dated 12/6/2005 10:55:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,  
dynagroove at veggiechinese.net writes:

On Tue,  Dec 06, 2005 at 12:03:01PM -0500, badiye at aol.com wrote:

[ Ok.. I've  been keeping my mouth shut on this one since I don't really
care, but I  guess I'll throw in my $0.32 ]

> 4. House is about universal love,  respect and understanding and the
> message is conveyed through dance.  That's it. In that very simple
> approach its message manages to be all  encompassing: Political,
> Social, Revolutionary, anti-establishment,  individualistic,
> participatory, respectfull, socially conscious and  above all
> positive.

That's what house means for you, maybe. I  think it's very dangerous to
make assumptions about what it means to other  people.

I've been involved with dance music in some capacity for around  11-12
years, and I've been making music during a lot of that time.  House
music has never been about "universal love, respect and  understanding"
for me... and even if it were, I don't quite see how that  simple
message manages to accomplish all the things you attribute to  it.

Now certainly, people often create / imagine meaning where there  is
none, but I don't think this is a belief shared by all, or  most,
people who listen to house music or are part of the "scene"  (whatever
that is).

I think that both the beauty and curse of disco  (and all its
descendants, including house) is that it specifically isn't  about much
of anything except having fun and maybe dancing. IMHO, anyone  who
thinks it's about more than that has either done too many drugs, or  is
trying to give more meaning to something they do for fun. That's  not
to say that people who are in the scene don't individually  participate
in social change, or that they are all apathetic... however, I  don't
think much or any of this can be attributed to the music (or  the
"scene") itself.

> None of this is achieved by any of Hip  Hop's protagonists.

I think that's a dangerously unilateral statement.  Hip-hop culture and
rap music have done a lot to challenge the  establishment & the status
quo over the years, and many artists have  made political, social,
and revolutionary statements. Perhaps you don't  /agree/ with all of
these statements, or perhaps you don't agree that the  statements are
resulting in actual social change, but they're being  made.

/w
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