[Groop]Oh no! I'm Nut-picking!

[Sudilovsky, Ariel]

From: Kevin Hall [mailto:kevin.hall@umassmed.edu]
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 1:03 PM
To: groop@groo.com
Subject: Re: [Groop]Oh no! I'm Nut-picking!


"Sudilovsky, Ariel" wrote:

> -------->I hate to nut-pick, but I must.  The peanut is in fact a nut-not
a
> legume.  A legume is a pod, such as a pea or a bean, that splits into 2
> valves with the seeds attached to the lower edge of one of the valves.  By
> contrast a nut is a hard-shelled, solid textured, one-celled fruit, such
as
> an acorn or hazelnut, that does not split open.  Clearly one should
realize
> that a peanut, therefore, is a nut.  First, the peanut is not attached to

Actually, Ariel, a peanut (Arachis hypogaea) belongs to the family
Leguminosae (or legumes) and is *not* hard-shelled per se as most real
nuts are - it has a "skin" more than a hard shell like a walnut or an
almond, and is, in fact, not a nut but a rhizome.


------->I am not a botanist, and I am sure there are a great many
botanological things which are beyond me.  Please, help me out where I am
misinformed.  First of, as I understand it, the peanut is actually a member
of the family "Fabaceae", not family "Leguminosae".  A third definition I
have seen for legume is: a member of the family leguminosae.  As the peanut
is not a member of this family, it is not considered a legume by that
characteristic.  My understanding is that the peanut's classification is
disputed, with the majority of botanists holding that it is a legume.  I
have had this discussion with botanists stating that the peanut is a legume.
I have asked why this is.  "Because it is" has routinely been the reasoning
given.  At that point I have asked what are the characteristics of a legume.
I have been told that they are: 1) a member of the leguminosae family; 2)
attachment to a pod; and 3)a self-splitting pod.  I have pointed out that
the peanut is not a member of the family leguminosae, is not attached to its
"pod", nor does the pod self split.  I have not been corrected on these
facts.  Thus, the peanut does not carry any of the defining elements of a
legume, as they have been identified to me.  Regardless, the majority of
botanists do hold it to be a legume.  I have never seen an adequate, or even
sensical, explanation for this.  You seem to say that a hard shell is a
requirement for a nut (I provided it as one non-exclusive definition).  I
have never seen any source so hold.  I do not understand such to be an
integral element to nuttiness.   The term rhizome, does not have much
bearing here either, as I understand it.  Rhizome is not synonymous with
legume.  Rhizome means: an underground plant stem capable of producing the
shoot and root systems of a new plant, such as water lilies and ferns,
amongst others.  Whether a peanut is a rhizome, as I understand it, has
nothing to do with being a legume or nut.  If someone has a better
explanation, please, I am eager to hear it.  If I have any erroneous beliefs
of fact, please let me know what they are, as again, I am eager to hear it.

> Another definition which should clear up any remaining questions is: A
seed
> borne in a fruit having a hard shell, as the peanut or almond.
> 
> Webster's is a much truer and more valuable source for definitions than
3rd
> Rock.

And while I don't doubt that Webster's *may* be a more reliable source
than 3rd Rock for *much* information, in this case Webster's is wrong.

------>Or maybe just not a subscriber to the majority view.


Part of this, however, is semantics. I've heard before that
"botanically" speaking a tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable. 


------>The tomato is in fact a fruit.  This is beyond debate.  It is also a
vegetable.  The definition for a fruit is: the seed bearing part of a plant.
This is not semantics or botany jargon.  This is the definition of what it
takes to be a fruit.  Simply stated, if it is the seed, or houses the seed,
then it is a fruit.  Peach=fruit.  Apple=fruit.  Tomato=fruit.
Peanut=fruit. Corn=fruit; Green Pepper=fruit.  Squash=fruit. etc.  The
definition of vegetable is two fold.  First it contemplates any thing that
is plant life.  As pertains to this discussion it is any edible portion of a
plant.  Thus all fruits are vegetables.  However, not all vegetables are
fruits.  Spinach leaf=vegetable (not fruit). Potato=vegetable(not fruit),
etc.  The tomato, as an edible portion of a plant is a vegetable, but as it
is the seed bearing portion of the tomato plant is also a fruit.


Yet clearly, in common usage, a tomato IS a vegetable. :) That being the
case, while I *do* adamantly hold that a peanut is a rhizome, until they
have a rhizome section in the local grocery store, I'll continue to look
for my peanuts in the nut section. :)


-------->I can explain why this is.  Somewhen around the mid 1800s (I forget
the exact date) the supreme court of the United States heard a case which
oddly enough hinged on whether the tomato is a fruit or vegetable.  I forget
the exact reasons, but it was something like there was a tax associated with
fruit which the tomato growers sought to avoid (or vice versa), or a
monetary benefit for vegetable growing which the tomato growers sought to
have (or vice versa)which made a federal case out of the classification of
the tomato.  The court proved way back then that form was much less
important to it than function by rather arbitrarily deciding that the tomato
was a vegetable exclusively.  No substantive analysis was provided in the
opinion.  They settled the issue.  The tomato was a vegetable.  Years later
they would also settle another issue, ignoring fact, and resting on the side
of feeling and convenience.  
Also, for many, who define things emotionally, rather than intellectually,
fruits are sweet.  They must contain fructose in large quantities.  Since
the tomato ain't sweet it ain't a fruit, or so the incorrect thought process
goes.  This is a psychological contrivance and has no bearing on the
objective facts.  Gotta be wary of common usage or you will be seeing black
where there is white and feeling cold when it is hot.  While it is correct
to call a tomato a vegetable, if you want to describe it more accurately and
in a more precise manner you should call it a fruit.  Otherwise you are just
subscribing to blind sloppy foolish consistency.  



PS Mark, we REALLY need some new Groo & soon!!!!


------>Yup!

Later,
A
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