[Groop]re: OT Amina Lawal]

Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:58:59 EST

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In a message dated 10/28/2002 11:45:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
azamin7@pd.jaring.my writes:

> I'm sorry if I had offended you. Yes, i agreed with you that the difference 
> was maybe, how we  inteprate the phrase "the way of life".. for us Muslim, 
> "the way of life" concept is to include all activities including in 
> governing the country and all our activities is governed by Islamic 
> belief.. 

----------->No offense taken.  No such intent seen.    Azamin, for the few 
years I have been on the list, you have seemed a rational player on those 
occassions that the topic has turned serious.  At other times you are a Groo 
reader so rationality is impossible. : )   I hope no one minds if this 
discussion continues a bit.

       Maybe I'm still splitting hairs, but I ddo not see the direct relation 
you identify.  What I mean is, anyone who subscribes, in their heart, to a 
religion will take that religion, and the way of life it offers, wherever 
they go.  For example, a Christian Senator, here in the US, will take the 
lessons he has learned to his job.  If he employs Christian doctrine in his 
life, it will also determine the way he does his job.  The difference comes 
where the religious doctrine is part of the legal code.  This must be the 
case for if not would it  then become impossible for a Muslim to live as a 
Muslim in anywhere but a Muslim country.  I personally do not believe this to 
be true.  Azamin, I am interested in your thoughts on this.  Perhaps the 
above paragraph is not clear enough to let me be properly understood.  Let me 
know if that is the case.

> 
> After General Sani Abaca's death (he was the Nageria military junta 
> president.  Remember those Nigerian e-mail scam about seeking help to get 
> some money out of nageria..?), Nageria federal government might give more 
> autonomy to its state governments.. and I believe this is where some states 
> with Muslim majority had proposed syaria (islamic) law to be implemented... 
>  here in Malaysia, we too had some discussion about the implementation.. 
> and how it will affact non muslim if the law is being implemented.   
>   

----------->My understanding of the situation is a little different than 
yours.  I have read that the additional autonomy you mention was itself 
outside the Nigerian constitution.  And further, the adoption of the Shai'ra 
as the official legal code was beyond what was intended.  My further 
understanding of the problem is that the Islamic code is being imposed on 
non-Islamic citizens.

But as I said before this is Nigeria's "problem", and within its own soverign 
rights to remedy.  It is not for the US to tell any country what its laws 
should be by force.  Assuming if course that such conduct is within 
internationally understood strictures.  However, the US government's right to 
take other conduct towards countries that are at odds with the US's beliefs 
or policy.  As for the citizens of the US, and any other country, for that 
matter, I believe they have an unvarying right to speak their minds.  If 
someone is at odds with some aspect of Islam, for example, they are in their 
rights to discuss such feeling.  Style of course is determining 
effectiveness.  If the person described above comes out saying something like 
"Muslims are savages" said person will have to understand why his Muslim 
listeners were insulted, rather than drawn to self-consideration.

A

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<HTML>In a message dated 10/28/2002 11:45:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, azamin7@pd.jaring.my writes:
 
 
 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'm sorry if I had offended you. Yes, i agreed with you that the difference was maybe, how we &nbsp;inteprate the phrase "the way of life".. for us Muslim, "the way of life" concept is to include all activities including in governing the country and all our activities is governed by Islamic belief.. </BLOCKQUOTE>
 
 
 
 -----------&gt;No offense taken. &nbsp;No such intent seen. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Azamin, for the few years I have been on the list, you have seemed a rational player on those occassions that the topic has turned serious. &nbsp;At other times you are a Groo reader so rationality is impossible. : ) &nbsp;&nbsp;I hope no one minds if this discussion continues a bit.
 
 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Maybe I'm still splitting hairs, but I ddo not see the direct relation you identify. &nbsp;What I mean is, anyone who subscribes, in their heart, to a religion will take that religion, and the way of life it offers, wherever they go. &nbsp;For example, a Christian Senator, here in the US, will take the lessons he has learned to his job. &nbsp;If he employs Christian doctrine in his life, it will also determine the way he does his job. &nbsp;The difference comes where the religious doctrine is part of the legal code. &nbsp;This must be the case for if not would it &nbsp;then become impossible for a Muslim to live as a Muslim in anywhere but a Muslim country. &nbsp;I personally do not believe this to be true. &nbsp;Azamin, I am interested in your thoughts on this. &nbsp;Perhaps the above paragraph is not clear enough to let me be properly understood. &nbsp;Let me know if that is the case.
 
 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
 After General Sani Abaca's death (he was the Nageria military junta president. &nbsp;Remember those Nigerian e-mail scam about seeking help to get some money out of nageria..?), Nageria federal government might give more autonomy to its state governments.. and I believe this is where some states with Muslim majority had proposed syaria (islamic) law to be implemented... &nbsp;here in Malaysia, we too had some discussion about the implementation.. and how it will affact non muslim if the law is being implemented. &nbsp;&nbsp;
 &nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
 
 -----------&gt;My understanding of the situation is a little different than yours. &nbsp;I have read that the additional autonomy you mention was itself outside the Nigerian constitution. &nbsp;And further, the adoption of the Shai'ra as the official legal code was beyond what was intended. &nbsp;My further understanding of the problem is that the Islamic code is being imposed on non-Islamic citizens.
 
 But as I said before this is Nigeria's "problem", and within its own soverign rights to remedy. &nbsp;It is not for the US to tell any country what its laws should be by force. &nbsp;Assuming if course that such conduct is within internationally understood strictures. &nbsp;However, the US government's right to take other conduct towards countries that are at odds with the US's beliefs or policy. &nbsp;As for the citizens of the US, and any other country, for that matter, I believe they have an unvarying right to speak their minds. &nbsp;If someone is at odds with some aspect of Islam, for example, they are in their rights to discuss such feeling. &nbsp;Style of course is determining effectiveness. &nbsp;If the person described above comes out saying something like "Muslims are savages" said person will have to understand why his Muslim listeners were insulted, rather than drawn to self-consideration.
 
 A
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