[Dynagroove] Tables for sale (Long response)

[Josh Billings]

I'm gonna be the bad guy here...

1. The "Warm Sound" Is usually some kind of saturation / distortion & 
almost always rolled off mids & highs. CDs don't have this problem 
because they can produce up to 20khz precisely every time. Vinyl is 
usually up to roughly 10-13 Khz. Technically they CAN go to 20khz on the 
first play but after about 20 or so you're down to a fairly bad sounding 
record and with most "Dj Vinyl" being pressed by non Audiophile 
standards i don't think we had 20khz to begin with. Another reason why 
CDs didn't sound as good as vinyl in the past was that it was mastered 
for Vinyl and put on a digital format. There are different practices for 
mastering between the different mediums and this makes a big difference 
in the sound.

A side note... I don't know any producers that aren't using a computer 
for some part of their production now. Even if they use analog synths & 
an analog mixing board with live drums they are almost always recording 
into a computer and editing/mastering inside of a computer. So if it's 
digital then, why transfer it back to analog?

2. I can't Argue with the aesthetics. Records are way cooler than CDs. I 
don't know many people that will argue with you, but a lot of records 
weren't given the attention they deserve with lackluster Album art or no 
art at all...sometimes just a sticker on the label, sometimes just a 
white sleeve and no case.

3. Also as far as a night club sound Records are no good. Next time 
you're out at a club with a good sound system and you see a DJ playing 
both Vinyl & CDs take note of which ones sound better than other then 
walk up to the front and see what he/she is playing. I've noticed when 
the sound system at focus just doesn't sound quite right (flat would be 
the best way to describe it) it's usually a record making the sound. 
Also feedback plagues big sound systems when records are played and no 
matter what you say if you have bass you have MASSIVELY degraded sound 
quality even if you suspend the turntables from the air. Bass moves air 
and the air passes over the needle and it's amplified through the sound 
system and it's not a pleasing sound..

However function, i prefer CDJs any day. I like all of the advanced 
options on a CDJ that you just can't do on a turntable.

4. This is actually where CDs shine. a few of my CDs were stolen at a 
gig not that long ago...and it was nice to know i could just burn them 
again and not worry about it too much. Now had 30 of my records been 
stolen...that would completely ruin my day/week/month + cost me $240 to 
replace ($360 for imports). This cost me $1-2 in CDs.

5. Downloadable music is what makes my sound possible. I haven't been 
able to find any pressings of most of the tracks i've been playing for 
the past year. They are all producers that have a decent following in 
Europe but aren't known very well in the states + Talk about predictable 
sets...all the record stores for the past 3-4 years have been stocking 
the exact same stuff. The only way you could get semi unique tracks 
would be buying off the internet (Juno/Sat/DanceRecords etc) and paying 
shipping fees.

On top of that it gives people to opportunity to be more creative. I do 
my own edits of the tracks i play... if a track is 10 minutes long, but 
still really dope i'll edit a shorter version of it or i'll edit a 
separate beat on top of something i like that's kinda minimal. This also 
makes it easier for DJs to make their own music and play it out. It 
gives people the chance to hear stuff they have never heard before and 
may only hear it from that one person and it doesn't break the bank to 
do it.

I'm a big fan of progress and in the beginning i was anti CDJ like 
everybody else was but then slowly warmed up to it. I still remember 
when Cade brought in a CDJ-500 or something to focus for the first time 
to play the newest stuff that wasn't on Vinyl Yet, that's one moment 
that i remember turning me around on the issue.

Ultimately the sound quality i think is without a doubt better on the 
average record vs. the average CD. There can be cases in perfect 
situations of an isolated room with a turntable with audiophile grade 
needles on a great setup (UREI or better) with a record being played for 
the first time on a analog system sounding better than CDs...but that's 
not the case in a night club setup. However most parties DJ Setups are 
on banquet tables (folding tables with plastic tops) with mediocre / old 
needles playing records that have been played 20+ times and patched in 
through a DJM-500/600 (Mid Grade Digital Mixer).

Don't hate me :-)

-Josh Billings

BadIYE at aol.com wrote:
> There are very good arguments for going fully digital and everyone knows  
> them.  The decline in vinyl sales is testament to that.   However, preferring 
> vinyl doesn't mean, as you suggest, that we're  tyring to artificially push our 
> "street cred", whatever that is in my case  (what is my street cred?  pimp? ho? 
>   both?).   
>  
> The reasons i personally like vinyl are: 
>  
>  1.  analog sounds better/warmer to my ears.  Digital  sounds if very close 
> now but still missing that warmth, at least to my  ears.  Other CDJ djs have 
> agreed with me but went with economics; 
>  
> 2.  There is an aestetic value to vinyl that is missing in CDs.   Vinyl is 
> better looking, but more importantly, iconic.  It evokes emotions  just to look 
> at it.  It's a much bigger canvas for album covers, which over  time become 
> artwork (there are numerous Art shows on vinyl).  There are  photo books about 
> different djs studios comparing how they design their  studios/bedrooms/living 
> rooms with shelves full of vinyl.  it also evokes a  "retro" lifestyle, and 
> resurrects in the mind past eras full of  promise.  CDs can't compete.
>  
> 3.  Playing Vinyl at a club is a fascinating ritual or  even sub-cultural 
> phenomena married to the dance  underground:  the sight of the DJ coming into the 
> party with  a big bag of vinyl (like Santa Claus at X-mas time);  The DJ  
> digging fast and furiously into the bag to come up with just the right  record.  
> Maybe put it up towards the light to check the  label and proper side 
> (exposing it to the clubs beaming lights  which reflect beautifully off of it), 
> placing it down, the physical process  of placing the precious needle from the 
> Technics (itself a thing of beauty  and art which spawned its own artistic 
> tangents).  The needle catches the  groove.  The records is exposed for all of us to 
> see, turning round and  round in the light..(not possible in cd 
> format)....There are numerous  additional indelible images that anyone of us who's been in 
> this scene long  enough can recall fondly which relate in some way to a DJ 
> playing  Vinyl.
>  
> 4.  The delicacy of the whole thing is what makes it  precious.  Who said 
> things must be made easy for the DJ? How  one deals with the drunken DJ skanks is 
> part of the  experience.  DJs are more likely to value the music on a piece 
> of  vinyl instead of one on CD which can be re-burnt if  damaged.  Valuing 
> music is the frame of mind you want for  someone we trust to mold our collective 
> taste.
>  
> 5.  the cheapness of digital tracks have caused, in my very humble  opinion, 
> a large number of DJs to start sounding the same.  They  are more forgiving 
> about otherwise mediocre tracks because they  are so cheap.  If you're buying 
> vinyl, the expense of it forces you to  be choosy.  You concentrate on the music 
> that truly touched you the  most because you can't afford to buy as many 
> items.  Sets  from CDJ only DJs are often too functional, predictable and  
> uninspired.  That's what happens when you try out every single one of the  ten tracks 
> you just downloaded from whatever website.  A Vinyl set is  usually a lot 
> more thoughful and interesting, and more likely to create  magic.  Having to be 
> choosy makes each DJ develop a unique sound.   That's not what we have now, 
> where I can't tell the difference between many DJs,  even famous ones.
>  
> With the possible exception of No. 1 & 5, all of the things I  mentioned are 
> certainly secondary to what is  happening on the dance  floor.  Clearly, by 
> now, there must have been hundreds of magical  moments or superb sets played 
> entirely or largely on CDJs.  I don't doubt  that for a minute.  The dance floor 
> and how it is doing on any given  night is paramount.  But the visuals, 
> rituals  and details of our events also count.  Playing  only CDJs makes sense:  it 
> is functional, it is high  performing, more secure and cheaper.  But it is 
> also devoid of  good aesthetics or any character precisely because it is all 
> those  things.   
>  
> In my mind there is a greater issue.  CDs vs. Vinyl is simply an  example of 
> what's happening in our country (and globally) on a greater  level.  We 
> substitute things that have intrinsic values beyond their  functions, values that 
> enrich our personalities, character and daily lives,  for things that simply 
> make our lives a little easier but add no value beyond  function.  Walmart takes 
> out your friendly and caring neighborhood  stores.  Starbucks streamlines your 
> coffee drinking  experience, eliminating the bohemian coffee stores, with 
> their  interesting characters and new original art every week on the  walls; 
> Gorgeous victorian/landmark buildings are destroyed to make way for  cookie cutter 
> boxy apartment buildings or strip malls....etc...etc...
>  
> This "progress" certainly makes our lives much easier.  We get  our items for 
> cheap and conveniently in one place.  We get our coffee  fix exactly the same 
> way, in the same setting,  and it's never more then 10 minutes away.  We live 
> in super  modern apartments pre-constructed with ready for cable  
> installation....
>  
> But beyond the economics, are our lives enriched by cheap items in  humongous 
> hanger like stores with no need for human contact?  Are  we better off 
> "streamlined" in our taste for coffee (or any other  food item really)? Is it good 
> or bad for the soul to  have to lay your eyes on  a non-descript, design 
> challenged strip mall instead of an  architectural marvel, on the way to and from 
> work? 
>  
> CDs represent the mainstream:  Cold, Robotic, Unmoving,  Unattractive, 
> Efficient, Inexpensive and Functional.   Vinyl  represents History, Culture, 
> Rebellion, Alternatives, Story  telling, Inefficiency, Difficulty, Character.    They 
> both  can do the job, one more efficiently then the other.  I  personally 
> choose the one that enriches my life, not the one that  turns everything 
> into....beige. 
>      
> This just MY humble take on this.  Please NO ONE,  especially those who've 
> gone completely digital, take offense to it.   It's a very personal view of life 
> that I'm sharing with you under the banner of  this topic, that's all, not an 
> attack on anyone.  With that, back to the  grind.
>  
> Imad.
> housesaladla.com
> The Return of Werkit
>  
> In a message dated 10/11/2007 9:56:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time,  
> aaron at tohzt.com writes:
>
> I guess  I have been in a different frame of mind, having it in my head
> that it was  somewhat more respectable for a dj to play vinyl.  It wasnt
> until this  week that I actually heard someone voice a valuable perspective
> on the  issue of vinyl vs. cds.
>
> Physically, it is  more dangerous to the  quality of the sound for a dj to
> play vinyl.  Vibrations, earthquakes,  and drunk dj skanks all are a
> potential threat to your dancing experience  if your dj is playing vinyl. 
> If you know the physics of records, then you  understand.  If not, then you
> should make a date with Wiki and get  your head out of your ass.
>
> The thing that kept me hanging with the idea  of vinyl is the physical
> skill that is required to be a master.   Skills will always be required,
> but cdjs can do the same thing without the  potential damage to the sound,
> experience....and more.
>
> Dance music  is like newspaper.  It isnt every day that the headline is
> worth  saving and the issue becomes a collectors item.  Sometimes we  can't
> get enough of reading about Britney Spears' pussy, and  sometimes
> Presidents are impeached.  It's relative, but digitalism is  the future no
> matter how much you try to hate.  The hot Crookers,  Switch, Nonfiction,
> and Hijack remixes are not available on vinyl yet,  folks.  Just like
> anything, anything worth saving gets preserved and  will push forward
> through time.
>
> I think it's future to mix the old  and the new, but djs, PLEASE think
> about your constituents before you hold  on to a vibrating piece of plastic
> just because you want some cred that you  probably don't deserve in the
> first place.
>
> love,
>
> _A (female  pleasuring device)
>
>
>  
>
>
>
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