[Dynagroove] Tables for sale (Long response)

[aaron at tohzt.com]

Nice!

Wasn't the biggest record distributor/producing plant in the US closed
recently?  This is going to make staying on top of music around the world
even harder for DJs in the US.

I think credibility in your craft has no "street" distinction; it just
means that you know you are a 'servant' to the music and the people you
bring it to.

love love,
_A

in response to: Josh Billings<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> I'm gonna be the bad guy here...
>
> 1. The "Warm Sound" Is usually some kind of saturation / distortion &
> almost always rolled off mids & highs. CDs don't have this problem
> because they can produce up to 20khz precisely every time. Vinyl is
> usually up to roughly 10-13 Khz. Technically they CAN go to 20khz on the
> first play but after about 20 or so you're down to a fairly bad sounding
> record and with most "Dj Vinyl" being pressed by non Audiophile
> standards i don't think we had 20khz to begin with. Another reason why
> CDs didn't sound as good as vinyl in the past was that it was mastered
> for Vinyl and put on a digital format. There are different practices for
> mastering between the different mediums and this makes a big difference
> in the sound.
>
> A side note... I don't know any producers that aren't using a computer
> for some part of their production now. Even if they use analog synths &
> an analog mixing board with live drums they are almost always recording
> into a computer and editing/mastering inside of a computer. So if it's
> digital then, why transfer it back to analog?
>
> 2. I can't Argue with the aesthetics. Records are way cooler than CDs. I
> don't know many people that will argue with you, but a lot of records
> weren't given the attention they deserve with lackluster Album art or no
> art at all...sometimes just a sticker on the label, sometimes just a
> white sleeve and no case.
>
> 3. Also as far as a night club sound Records are no good. Next time
> you're out at a club with a good sound system and you see a DJ playing
> both Vinyl & CDs take note of which ones sound better than other then
> walk up to the front and see what he/she is playing. I've noticed when
> the sound system at focus just doesn't sound quite right (flat would be
> the best way to describe it) it's usually a record making the sound.
> Also feedback plagues big sound systems when records are played and no
> matter what you say if you have bass you have MASSIVELY degraded sound
> quality even if you suspend the turntables from the air. Bass moves air
> and the air passes over the needle and it's amplified through the sound
> system and it's not a pleasing sound..
>
> However function, i prefer CDJs any day. I like all of the advanced
> options on a CDJ that you just can't do on a turntable.
>
> 4. This is actually where CDs shine. a few of my CDs were stolen at a
> gig not that long ago...and it was nice to know i could just burn them
> again and not worry about it too much. Now had 30 of my records been
> stolen...that would completely ruin my day/week/month + cost me $240 to
> replace ($360 for imports). This cost me $1-2 in CDs.
>
> 5. Downloadable music is what makes my sound possible. I haven't been
> able to find any pressings of most of the tracks i've been playing for
> the past year. They are all producers that have a decent following in
> Europe but aren't known very well in the states + Talk about predictable
> sets...all the record stores for the past 3-4 years have been stocking
> the exact same stuff. The only way you could get semi unique tracks
> would be buying off the internet (Juno/Sat/DanceRecords etc) and paying
> shipping fees.
>
> On top of that it gives people to opportunity to be more creative. I do
> my own edits of the tracks i play... if a track is 10 minutes long, but
> still really dope i'll edit a shorter version of it or i'll edit a
> separate beat on top of something i like that's kinda minimal. This also
> makes it easier for DJs to make their own music and play it out. It
> gives people the chance to hear stuff they have never heard before and
> may only hear it from that one person and it doesn't break the bank to
> do it.
>
> I'm a big fan of progress and in the beginning i was anti CDJ like
> everybody else was but then slowly warmed up to it. I still remember
> when Cade brought in a CDJ-500 or something to focus for the first time
> to play the newest stuff that wasn't on Vinyl Yet, that's one moment
> that i remember turning me around on the issue.
>
> Ultimately the sound quality i think is without a doubt better on the
> average record vs. the average CD. There can be cases in perfect
> situations of an isolated room with a turntable with audiophile grade
> needles on a great setup (UREI or better) with a record being played for
> the first time on a analog system sounding better than CDs...but that's
> not the case in a night club setup. However most parties DJ Setups are
> on banquet tables (folding tables with plastic tops) with mediocre / old
> needles playing records that have been played 20+ times and patched in
> through a DJM-500/600 (Mid Grade Digital Mixer).
>
> Don't hate me :-)
>
> -Josh Billings
>
> BadIYE at aol.com wrote:
>> There are very good arguments for going fully digital and everyone knows
>> them.  The decline in vinyl sales is testament to that.   However,
>> preferring
>> vinyl doesn't mean, as you suggest, that we're  tyring to artificially
>> push our
>> "street cred", whatever that is in my case  (what is my street cred?
>> pimp? ho?
>>   both?).
>>
>> The reasons i personally like vinyl are:
>>
>>  1.  analog sounds better/warmer to my ears.  Digital  sounds if very
>> close
>> now but still missing that warmth, at least to my  ears.  Other CDJ djs
>> have
>> agreed with me but went with economics;
>>
>> 2.  There is an aestetic value to vinyl that is missing in CDs.   Vinyl
>> is
>> better looking, but more importantly, iconic.  It evokes emotions  just
>> to look
>> at it.  It's a much bigger canvas for album covers, which over  time
>> become
>> artwork (there are numerous Art shows on vinyl).  There are  photo books
>> about
>> different djs studios comparing how they design their
>> studios/bedrooms/living
>> rooms with shelves full of vinyl.  it also evokes a  "retro" lifestyle,
>> and
>> resurrects in the mind past eras full of  promise.  CDs can't compete.
>>
>> 3.  Playing Vinyl at a club is a fascinating ritual or  even
>> sub-cultural
>> phenomena married to the dance  underground:  the sight of the DJ coming
>> into the
>> party with  a big bag of vinyl (like Santa Claus at X-mas time);  The DJ
>> digging fast and furiously into the bag to come up with just the right
>> record.
>> Maybe put it up towards the light to check the  label and proper side
>> (exposing it to the clubs beaming lights  which reflect beautifully off
>> of it),
>> placing it down, the physical process  of placing the precious needle
>> from the
>> Technics (itself a thing of beauty  and art which spawned its own
>> artistic
>> tangents).  The needle catches the  groove.  The records is exposed for
>> all of us to
>> see, turning round and  round in the light..(not possible in cd
>> format)....There are numerous  additional indelible images that anyone
>> of us who's been in
>> this scene long  enough can recall fondly which relate in some way to a
>> DJ
>> playing  Vinyl.
>>
>> 4.  The delicacy of the whole thing is what makes it  precious.  Who
>> said
>> things must be made easy for the DJ? How  one deals with the drunken DJ
>> skanks is
>> part of the  experience.  DJs are more likely to value the music on a
>> piece
>> of  vinyl instead of one on CD which can be re-burnt if  damaged.
>> Valuing
>> music is the frame of mind you want for  someone we trust to mold our
>> collective
>> taste.
>>
>> 5.  the cheapness of digital tracks have caused, in my very humble
>> opinion,
>> a large number of DJs to start sounding the same.  They  are more
>> forgiving
>> about otherwise mediocre tracks because they  are so cheap.  If you're
>> buying
>> vinyl, the expense of it forces you to  be choosy.  You concentrate on
>> the music
>> that truly touched you the  most because you can't afford to buy as many
>> items.  Sets  from CDJ only DJs are often too functional, predictable
>> and
>> uninspired.  That's what happens when you try out every single one of
>> the  ten tracks
>> you just downloaded from whatever website.  A Vinyl set is  usually a
>> lot
>> more thoughful and interesting, and more likely to create  magic.
>> Having to be
>> choosy makes each DJ develop a unique sound.   That's not what we have
>> now,
>> where I can't tell the difference between many DJs,  even famous ones.
>>
>> With the possible exception of No. 1 & 5, all of the things I  mentioned
>> are
>> certainly secondary to what is  happening on the dance  floor.  Clearly,
>> by
>> now, there must have been hundreds of magical  moments or superb sets
>> played
>> entirely or largely on CDJs.  I don't doubt  that for a minute.  The
>> dance floor
>> and how it is doing on any given  night is paramount.  But the visuals,
>> rituals  and details of our events also count.  Playing  only CDJs makes
>> sense:  it
>> is functional, it is high  performing, more secure and cheaper.  But it
>> is
>> also devoid of  good aesthetics or any character precisely because it is
>> all
>> those  things.
>>
>> In my mind there is a greater issue.  CDs vs. Vinyl is simply an
>> example of
>> what's happening in our country (and globally) on a greater  level.  We
>> substitute things that have intrinsic values beyond their  functions,
>> values that
>> enrich our personalities, character and daily lives,  for things that
>> simply
>> make our lives a little easier but add no value beyond  function.
>> Walmart takes
>> out your friendly and caring neighborhood  stores.  Starbucks
>> streamlines your
>> coffee drinking  experience, eliminating the bohemian coffee stores,
>> with
>> their  interesting characters and new original art every week on the
>> walls;
>> Gorgeous victorian/landmark buildings are destroyed to make way for
>> cookie cutter
>> boxy apartment buildings or strip malls....etc...etc...
>>
>> This "progress" certainly makes our lives much easier.  We get  our
>> items for
>> cheap and conveniently in one place.  We get our coffee  fix exactly the
>> same
>> way, in the same setting,  and it's never more then 10 minutes away.  We
>> live
>> in super  modern apartments pre-constructed with ready for cable
>> installation....
>>
>> But beyond the economics, are our lives enriched by cheap items in
>> humongous
>> hanger like stores with no need for human contact?  Are  we better off
>> "streamlined" in our taste for coffee (or any other  food item really)?
>> Is it good
>> or bad for the soul to  have to lay your eyes on  a non-descript, design
>> challenged strip mall instead of an  architectural marvel, on the way to
>> and from
>> work?
>>
>> CDs represent the mainstream:  Cold, Robotic, Unmoving,  Unattractive,
>> Efficient, Inexpensive and Functional.   Vinyl  represents History,
>> Culture,
>> Rebellion, Alternatives, Story  telling, Inefficiency, Difficulty,
>> Character.    They
>> both  can do the job, one more efficiently then the other.  I
>> personally
>> choose the one that enriches my life, not the one that  turns everything
>> into....beige.
>>
>> This just MY humble take on this.  Please NO ONE,  especially those
>> who've
>> gone completely digital, take offense to it.   It's a very personal view
>> of life
>> that I'm sharing with you under the banner of  this topic, that's all,
>> not an
>> attack on anyone.  With that, back to the  grind.
>>
>> Imad.
>> housesaladla.com
>> The Return of Werkit
>>
>> In a message dated 10/11/2007 9:56:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>> aaron at tohzt.com writes:
>>
>> I guess  I have been in a different frame of mind, having it in my head
>> that it was  somewhat more respectable for a dj to play vinyl.  It wasnt
>> until this  week that I actually heard someone voice a valuable
>> perspective
>> on the  issue of vinyl vs. cds.
>>
>> Physically, it is  more dangerous to the  quality of the sound for a dj
>> to
>> play vinyl.  Vibrations, earthquakes,  and drunk dj skanks all are a
>> potential threat to your dancing experience  if your dj is playing
>> vinyl.
>> If you know the physics of records, then you  understand.  If not, then
>> you
>> should make a date with Wiki and get  your head out of your ass.
>>
>> The thing that kept me hanging with the idea  of vinyl is the physical
>> skill that is required to be a master.   Skills will always be required,
>> but cdjs can do the same thing without the  potential damage to the
>> sound,
>> experience....and more.
>>
>> Dance music  is like newspaper.  It isnt every day that the headline is
>> worth  saving and the issue becomes a collectors item.  Sometimes we
>> can't
>> get enough of reading about Britney Spears' pussy, and  sometimes
>> Presidents are impeached.  It's relative, but digitalism is  the future
>> no
>> matter how much you try to hate.  The hot Crookers,  Switch, Nonfiction,
>> and Hijack remixes are not available on vinyl yet,  folks.  Just like
>> anything, anything worth saving gets preserved and  will push forward
>> through time.
>>
>> I think it's future to mix the old  and the new, but djs, PLEASE think
>> about your constituents before you hold  on to a vibrating piece of
>> plastic
>> just because you want some cred that you  probably don't deserve in the
>> first place.
>>
>> love,
>>
>> _A (female  pleasuring device)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>


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