[Groop]re: OT Amina Lawal]

[Azamin Zainol Abidin]

oddman wrote:

> Isnīt the whole bottom line really that a lot of people(and
governments) are using
religion as a convenient source of power and control? (Like the way
women are
oppressed in some strict Muslim and Christian families?) Hey, if
God/Allah says it
must be so...then how does a "mere mortal" resist?

As what Charles de Montesquieu  (US political structure is based on his
philosophy of saparation of power) said in his book "The Spirit of the
Law" as "The deterioration of every government begins with the decay of
the principles on which it was founded."... From here we can see that
the principle
(in this case, the religion/islamic teaching) is not the one to be
blamed, but the
decay of the principles it was founded itself.  What about countries
solely
established in the name of communist for example..?. In communist
belief, every
citizens are equals in creating a utopia society... but tortures and
opperasive to its citizens happen there ..? People were sent to
Siberia... killed... jailed, tortured simply because they did not agree
to the
government....  This decay happen in all kind of ideologies/governments,
say it a
religious or communist, capitalist...

Anyway, if a person is knowledgable in Islam.. he or she will know and
can
differenciate which one is Allah's command/said and which one is being
manipulated by
corrupt rulers... Even i the prophet days... people still question some
of his action
but all these was answered with explaination.... not just "Allah Said
so" answer....  In the days after the prophet Muhammad death.  during
the Caliph (like a president/king with absolute power in present day)
Umar... a non muslim stole his armor and he brought this jew to the
judge... the judge ask the caliph
if he has a prove that the armour is his.. he said no, he don't have a
prove... so the judge dissmissed the case and let the non muslim have
the armour... the caliph had nothing to say except to let the non muslim
have it... and this is to the head of the government of the Islamic
nation at that time.... and
because of this, the non muslim returned the armour to the caliph and
convert to Islam...  This prove that when the Islamic government used
the religion as the convenient source of power and control to opress its
people.. they had deviated from what Islam teach.... but sadly.. that
what many muslim country
in the world today are doing and gives bad example about islam...

We must accept that in different culture, they have different view of
what is termed
as oppression... What does oppress means...? In Islam... we believe that
man and woman
was create with different characteristic.. be it physically or
emotionally... that why
in some Islamic teaching, we have different set of rules for man and
woman... for example, woman have to wear head scarve when in the public,
but man don't have to... We believe these set of rules for
woman is to protect woman and gives their dignity, not to oppress
them... is it not an
oppression when woman is being manipulated as a sex object in selling a
product...? Before Islam came.. during the Jahilliah (the dark ages in
the Arab world), woman are being opressed and regarded as a thing which
can be traded and killed.. but When Islam came... it give women their
rights and
dignity... and protect them.
This is the question that Muslim always ask when somebody who is a non
muslim said that women in Islam are being opressed...
Why when a nun covered her body frrom head to toe, she is being
respected for her
submission to God but when a muslim woman do the same, she was branded
as
oppressed...?
Why when a western woman stay at home to look after the children, she
was regarded as
sacrificed for her family but when a muslim woman do the same thing, she
need to be
libertised....?

> While I donīt usually participate in off-topic discussions, I
certainly donīt mind
>them. And if everyone else is having a say, they so shall I. If you
have a problem
>with that Roland- take it up with the list admins and maybe all Groop
members can vote
>on if we should ban OT discussions.

But remember the "wager of the god"  series... Sergio had express the
importance of
religious understanding in form of Groo comics... and to have
understanding among
religions.. we need discussion in a good term.... please be open and try
to explain it rationally...

> As for you comment- Roland, while I am not a believer myself, I didnīt
mean anything
about religion being good or bad. My point was that SOME PEOPLE MISUSE
THEM-
perverting a set of peaceful beliefs to govern their own interests.
These are the
terrorists, fascists and oppressors of democracy and
> freedom of the world. The people that donīt want YOU to have an
opinion or think for
yourself, but blindly do as they say. The people that want to kill you
because donīt
agree with them.

Yes I agree with you.. they misused and deviated from the
religion's/ideology's
teaching by opressing its own citizens.... for their own benefits....
plus when many
of their citizens are consists of uneducated/illiterate ones... One
example  in
Malaysian scenario can be read at
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/200211060033469.php

Azamin